Olin Moyles Ghost

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Posts by Olin Moyles Ghost

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  18

  2008 Generation Change

  by cognac in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i don't pay to much attention to jw stuff and so i don't know what this change was.

  can anybody inform me?.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  The 2008 generation change is best explained in the context of the Society's previous positions on the "generation" of Luke 21.

  In Luke 21:32, Jesus said that 'this generation will not pass away until all these things occur.' For decades, the WTS taught that Jesus was referring to the generation of people who saw the events of 1914. The WTS taught that there would be some people from that generation alive when the end came.

  Well, in 1995, the end still had not come, so the WTS changed its teaching on "generation." They now taught that Jesus just meant "wicked people" when he said "generation." And, most importantly, generation was no longer tied to 1914. In other words, everybody who was alive in 1914 could be dead before the end comes.

  In April 2008, the WTS tweaked its generation teaching once more. But this "new light" was not nearly as significant as the 1995 change. In 2008, the WTS said that "generation" as used by Jesus in Luke 21 didn't really mean "wicked people"--rather he meant "anointed Christians." But it is important to note that this did not change the 1995 understanding regarding 1914. In other words, the party line is still that everybody alive in 1914 could die before the end comes.

  Of course, the Society still teaches the end is right around the corner. But there is no temporal boundary--no date or other marker by which the end must come.
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  6

  what is MARKING about now....talks...or personal opinion??

  by oompa in

  1. jw
  2. friends
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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  The official position is that it involves a talk. Atlantis reproduced the relevant chapter from the Organized book (issued in 2004/05) on this thread: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/175857/1/Question-about-marking-in-the-congregation

  I'll take the liberty of quoting it here:

  MARKING DISORDERLY ONES

  In his second letter to the Thessalonians, Paul warned of certain ones who were walking disorderly and who if accorded good standing in the congregation could exert an unhealthy influence. Paul admonished the Thessalonian Christians "to withdraw from every brother walking disorderly and not according to the tradition you received from us." He further clarified that statement by writing: "If anyone is not obedient to our word through this letter, keep this one marked, stop associating with him, that he may become ashamed. And yet do not be considering him as an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother."?2 Thess. 3:6,14,15.

  Occasionally, someone not known to be guilty of practicing a grave sin for which he could be expelled nevertheless displays flagrant disregard for theocratic order. This could include such things as being grossly lazy or critical, being a profitless talker who is a constant 'meddler with what does not concern him.' (2 Thess. 3:11) Or this could include one who is scheming to take material advantage of others or indulging in entertainment that is clearly improper. The disorderly conduct is not so minor that it can be handled by applying Bible counsel and manifesting love; rather, it is serious enough to reflect badly on the congregation and potentially to spread to other Christians.

  After giving repeated admonition to such an individual and finding that he persists in disregarding well-established Bible principles, the elders may decide that a talk should be given to the congregation providing appropriate counsel concerning such disorderly conduct. Elders will use reasonableness and discernment in determining whether a particular situation is sufficiently serious and disturbing to require a warning talk. This talk will not name the disorderly one. However, those who are aware of the situation described in the talk will take heed and limit their social contacts with such individuals.

  The loving concern and firm stand of faithful members of the congregation could indeed move the disorderly one to shame and repentance. When it is clearly evident that the individual has abandoned his disorderly course, it would no longer be necessary to treat him as a marked individual.
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  22

  Question about "marking" in the congregation

  by Olin Moyles Ghost in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  can one of the resident scholars settle a disagreement about the current jw practice of "marking"?.

  my understanding is that marking works this way: suppose annie is a jw who persists in an activity that is strongly frowned upon by the society--but is not a df-ing offense (for example, she is dating a non-witness), then annie gets counseled by the elders.

  if annie continues to date the unbeliever, then the elders may decide to "mark" her.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  @Atlantis, thanks for the info. Looks like the official policy is still as I recall it. And, if I recall correctly, the Organized book was issued in 2004/05. So, the material quoted by Atlantis is fairly current.

  Of course, as several have recounted, it can work out differently in practice.
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  22

  Question about "marking" in the congregation

  by Olin Moyles Ghost in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  can one of the resident scholars settle a disagreement about the current jw practice of "marking"?.

  my understanding is that marking works this way: suppose annie is a jw who persists in an activity that is strongly frowned upon by the society--but is not a df-ing offense (for example, she is dating a non-witness), then annie gets counseled by the elders.

  if annie continues to date the unbeliever, then the elders may decide to "mark" her.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Can one of the resident scholars settle a disagreement about the current JW practice of "marking"?

  My understanding is that marking works this way: Suppose Annie is a JW who persists in an activity that is strongly frowned upon by the Society--but is not a DF-ing offense (for example, she is dating a non-witness), then Annie gets counseled by the elders. If Annie continues to date the unbeliever, then the elders may decide to "mark" her.

  This is done via a "marking talk." Basically, it's a local needs part on the Service Meeting. An elder explicitly states during the talk that it is a marking talk. The elder describes the type of activity that is going on, but does not name the individual who is being marked. Anyone in the congregation who knows that Annie is dating an unbeliever is expected to limit their association with her. But Annie can still go out in service and do other "theocratic" activities with the congregation.

  A friend told me that the JWs don't do marking like this anymore. Am I right, or is he?
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  10

  Birthdays vs. Baby Showers

  by The Missus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in the mind of a jw, why is there such a difference between celebrating someone's birthday from year to year and celebrating the actual day they were born, or celebrating that day a few weeks earlier or later in the form of a baby shower?

  when i was a jw and a sister was in the hospital with her new baby we would go up to visit and bring gifts for the baby, in essence, celebrating that baby's birthday.

  when i was in i never thought about it, but now i want to know!

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  This is something I had trouble reconciling in my mind. Why is it ok for a JW to celebrate a child's birth (with a baby shower)--but celebrating anniversaries of that birth is a gross sin that warrants disfellowshiping? It's like the society is saying you can do it once, but any more than that is against the rules. Seems like a narrow distinction...quite legalistic.

  @isaac - good point

  There's no mention of "true worshipers" observing baby showers in the Bible. As we were taught, the Magi were pagan astrologers. Add that to the "fact" that the Magi were directed by Satan's star in order to kill lil' baby Jesus, and you have a recipe for a great Questions from Readers article--Are Baby Showers for Christians?
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  26

  snubbed by the dubs...

  by undercover in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as most of ya'll know, i'm not dfd or dad, just faded and i've commented about how i still have some contact with some jws that i used to associate with.

  only on rare occassions do jws that i didn't know that well to begin with treat me as persona non grata...no big deal, i usually couldn't remember their names to begin with so it wasn't like i was being shunned by family or friends.. this story begins at the mall, where i was with my wife (*sbm), not my favorite place to be...but the sacrifices we have to make sometimes...you married guys know.... anyhoo, we're in a common area near the food court, deciding if we wanted to get a snack or just hold out for real food in a real restaurant somewhere else, when a "sister" we've known for years spots my wife and comes up.

  we've known this person for over 20 years...we go way back.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Undercover, you have a pm.
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  26

  snubbed by the dubs...

  by undercover in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as most of ya'll know, i'm not dfd or dad, just faded and i've commented about how i still have some contact with some jws that i used to associate with.

  only on rare occassions do jws that i didn't know that well to begin with treat me as persona non grata...no big deal, i usually couldn't remember their names to begin with so it wasn't like i was being shunned by family or friends.. this story begins at the mall, where i was with my wife (*sbm), not my favorite place to be...but the sacrifices we have to make sometimes...you married guys know.... anyhoo, we're in a common area near the food court, deciding if we wanted to get a snack or just hold out for real food in a real restaurant somewhere else, when a "sister" we've known for years spots my wife and comes up.

  we've known this person for over 20 years...we go way back.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Classy. I wonder what Mrs. Undercover thought about the loving attitude displayed by "the happiest people on earth"?
• 
  426

  One of the Governing Body had a stroke yesterday

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  on may 19th, theodore jaracz had a stroke.

  he's in very serious condition in the hospital.. that's all the information i have for now.. barb.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Barbara, were you referring to the 1993 International Conventions in Moscow, Kiev, etc?

  One day, Swingle read a telegram from a bunch of assembly overseers in Russia thanking the GB for holding conventions all over the former Soviet Union after it fell apart. When I walked into Peloyan's office he was on the phone with Swingle who was furious. Harry and Swingle were buddies. Harry told me that the GB had no knowledge of conventions all over Russia. They only gave the ok for one and that was St. Petersburg. However, when Jaracz went over to arrange for the convention, he also arranged for a bunch more but he never told the other GB members. They were shocked when they found out after the assemblies were held. They held an immediate meeting and "the boss" came very close to being removed. But he apologized over and over again and they forgave him.
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  426

  One of the Governing Body had a stroke yesterday

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  on may 19th, theodore jaracz had a stroke.

  he's in very serious condition in the hospital.. that's all the information i have for now.. barb.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  So if TJ was the head honcho on the GB, who is the heir apparent? Loesch?
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  16

  Bible Studies...how hard, how rare, anybody know a JW with one???

  by oompa in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i find it interesting how many dubs of even 50 years old have never had a bible study (yet they go out most sat morns.

  for two hours and turn in the slip) ...and how many dubs really want one?

  (and is nt that the goal of service?

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Oompa, it depends where you live and what sort of congregation you're in. My experience in the USA is that you're not going to have many Bible Studies in the English-speaking congregations. And even fewer in the wealthy parts of the country.

  But even in the USA, if you're in a spanish congregation or in a foreign language "group" then you will see lots of publishers with studies. That's my experience, anyway.

  And you are correct that lots of publishers don't want studies. They're happy to put in their 2 hours on Saturday morning (perhaps round up to 3) and go on with their lives.